Author Topic: This Old Military Rifle  (Read 52379 times)

Henry Bowman

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2014, 05:55:03 PM »
Continued.....Internet couldn't have gone out at a worse time.......

Finland:

 Finnish Army Mosin–Nagant Model 91.

 Civil Guard Mosin–Nagant Model 24.

 Finnish Army Mosin–Nagant Model 27.

 Finnish Army Mosin–Nagant Model 27rv.

 Civil Guard Mosin–Nagant Model 28.

Most Finnish Rifles were assembled by SAKO, Tikkakoski Oy, or VKT (Valtion Kivääritehdas, States Rifle factory, after wars part of Valtion Metallitehtaat (Valmet), State Metal works). The Finnish cartridge 7.62x53R is a slightly modified variation of the Russian 7.62x54R, and is considered interchangeable with 54R; however, there is a difference between Finnish military ammunition manufactured before and after 1939, cartridges from before 1939 use .308 in bullet while those manufactured later use .310 in bullet, change was made due to introduction of M/39 "Ukko-Pekka" barreled to use .310 in Soviet ammunition. Handloaded cartridges for Finnish rifles should however use a 0.308 inches (7.8 mm) bullet for use with other Finnish Mosin–Nagant variants instead of the 0.310 inches (7.9 mm) one which gives best results in M39, Soviet and most of other Mosin–Nagant rifles. M39s with the "D" barrel stamping are further indicative of the .310 of Finland's indigenous D166 7.62x53mmR round.

M/91: When Finland achieved independence from Russia, large numbers of Model 1891 infantry rifles were already stockpiled in the ex-Russian military depots within Finland. As a result, the rifle was adopted as the standard Finnish Army weapon, and surplus Mosin–Nagants were purchased from other European nations which had captured them during World War I. These rifles were overhauled to meet Finnish Army standards and designated M/91. Beginning in 1940, Tikkakoski and VKT began production of new M/91 rifles. VKT production ceased in 1942 in favor of the newer M/39 rifle, but Tikkakoski production continued through 1944. The M/91 was the most widely issued Finnish rifle in both the Winter War and the Continuation War.
M/91rv: A cavalry rifle built from former Russian Model 1891 Dragoon rifles, modified with a sling slot based on the German Karabiner 98a. The original Russian sling slots were also retained.

M/24: The "Lotta Rifle," the Model 24 or Model 1891/24 was the first large-scale Mosin–Nagant upgrade project undertaken by the Finnish Suojeluskunta (Civil Guard), and there were, in fact three separate variations of the rifle. Barrels were produced by SIG (Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft) and by a German consortium. Swiss-produced barrels could be found in both standard Mosin–Nagant 1891 contour and in a heavier contour designed for improved accuracy, while all German-produced barrels were heavy weight barrels. The initial contract for the SIG-produced barrels was let on April 10, 1923, and was for 3,000 new barrels produced with the original Model 1891 barrel contour. A subsequent contract for 5,000 additional heavier barrels, stepped at the muzzle end to accept the standard Mosin Nagant bayonet, was let the next year. The German contracts, starting in 1924 and running to 1926, were all for the heavier, stepped barrels with two contracts: one for 5,000 barrels and a second for 8,000 barrels. The German-made barrels are marked "Bohler-Stahl" on the under side of the chamber. All Model 24s are marked with the Civil Guard logo of three fir tree sprigs over a capital "S." All Model 24s are equipped with a coil spring around the trigger pin to improve the trigger pull and thus the accuracy of the rifle. The Model 24 was called the Lotta's Rifle ("Lottakivääri") after the women's auxiliary of the Civil Guard, known as the "Lotta Svärd" which was instrumental in raising funds to purchase and repair or refurbish some 10,000 rifles.

M/27: The Model 27 was the Finnish Army's first almost complete reworking of the Model 1891, it was nicknamed Pystykorva (literally "spitz") due to the foresight guards. The receiver and magazine of the 1891 were retained, but a new shorter-length heavy-weight barrel was fitted. The sights were modified. The receivers and bolts were modified with "wings" being fitted to the bolt connecting bars that fit into slots machined into the receivers. The stocks were initially produced by cutting down 1891 stocks and opening up the barrel channels to accommodate the heavier barrel. New barrel bands and nose caps were fitted and a new bayonet was issued. The modified stocks proved to be weak, breaking when soldiers practiced bayonet fighting or firing with the bayonet fitted. These and other problems resulted in a slow-down of production in the mid-1930s while solutions to problems were engineered and existing stocks of rifles were modified. Produced from mid-1927 to 1940, the Model 27 was the Finnish Army's main battle rifle in the Winter War.

M/27rv: A cavalry carbine version of the M27, rv is short for ratsuväki (literally mounted force). 2217 were made, and were assigned to the most elite Finnish cavalry units. As a result of their heavy use, nearly half were lost over the course of the Winter and Continuation Wars. Most of the surviving examples were deemed beyond repair and scrapped, with slightly over 300 still existing. This makes it the rarest of all Finnish Mosin–Nagant models.
M/28: A variant designed by the White Guard. The M/28 differs from the Army's M/27 primarily in the barrel band design, which is a single piece compared to the M/27's hinged band, and an improved trigger design. Barrels for the M/28 were initially purchased from SIG, and later from Tikkakoski and SAKO.

M/28-30: An upgraded version of the M/28. The most noticeable modification is the new rear sight design. Same sight was used in following M39 rifle only exception being "1.5" marking for closest range to clarify it for users. According to micrometer measurements and comparison to modern Lapua D46/47 bullet radar trajectory data, markings are matched to Finnish Lapua D46/D46 bullet surprisingly accurately through whole adjustment range between 150 m and 2000 m.

The trigger was also improved by adding coil spring to minimize very long pre-travel. Following M39 does not have this improvement. The magazine was also modified to prevent jamming. Magazines were stamped with "HV" (Häiriö Vapaa = Jam Free) letters in right side of rifle. Later M39 uses identical design, but without "HV" -stamp. M/28-30 also have metal sleeve in fore-end of handguard, to reduce barrel harmonics change and to make barrel-stock contact more constant between shots and/or during environmental changes such as moisture and temperature. Later M39 does not have this upgrade.

In addition to its military usage, approximately 440 M/28-30 rifles were manufactured by SAKO for use in the 1937 World Shooting Championships in Helsinki.

M/28-30 model, serial number 60974, was also used by Simo Häyhä, a well-known Finnish sniper. M28/30 was used as Civil Guards competition rifle before World War II, as was case with Simo Häyhä's personal rifle too. Therefore rifles were built very well, with highest grade barrels available and carefully matched headspace. Häyhä's rifle was still at PKarPr (Northern Karelia Brigade) museum in 2002, then moved to an unknown place by the Finnish Army.
M/91-35: A model proposed by the Finnish Army to replace both its M/27 and the White Guard's M/28 and M/28-30 rifles. The White Guard strongly objected to this plan, considering the M91/35 to have poor accuracy and excessive muzzle flash. It was never adopted, instead being supplanted by the M/39.
M/39: nicknamed "Ukko-Pekka" after the former President Pehr Evind Svinhufvud,  a compromise between the Army and White Guard, adopted so as to standardize Mosin–Nagant production. The M/39 was derived largely from the M28-30, but included some alterations proposed by the Army. The M/39 also incorporated a semi-pistol grip into the stock, though some early examples used typical Mosin–Nagant straight stocks. Only 10 rifles were completed by the end of the Winter War, but 96,800 were produced after the Winter War and used in the Continuation War. Small numbers were assembled from leftover parts in the late 1960s through 1970, bringing the total production to approximately 102,000.

M/30: Tikkakoski produced improved, high-quality Model 1891/30 rifles in 1943 and 1944, designated M/30, using new barrels and parts from some of the almost 125,000 1891/30s captured in the Winter and Continuation Wars as well as 57,000 rifles bought from the Germans in 1944 (most of which were only suitable for use as parts donors). They were produced with both one- and two-piece stocks and either Soviet globe or Finnish blade foresights.[27]

M/56: An experimental 7.62x39 version.

M/28-57: A biathlon 7.62x54R version.

M/28-76: A special marksmanship and target rifle for continuation training and competition, produced in two different versions by the Finnish Army. They were built from modified M/28-30 and M/39 rifles.

7.62 Tkiv 85: A modern designated marksman/sniper rifle designed around original Mosin–Nagant receivers modified and assembled by Valmet and Finnish Defence Forces (FDF) Asevarikko 1 (Arsenal 1) in Kuopio.

Czechoslovakia

VZ91/38 Carbine: Very similar to the M91/59, it is an M38-style carbine produced by cutting down Model 1891 Infantry, Dragoon, and Cossack rifles. Few of these carbines exist, and the reason for their creation remains unclear. Like the M44, they have a bayonet groove cut into the right side of the stock, despite there being no evidence that the VZ91/38 design ever included a bayonet.
VZ54 Sniper Rifle: Based on the M1891/30, although it has the appearance of a modern sporting firearm. The VZ54 utilizes a Czech-made 2.5x magnification scope, as well as a unique rear sight. It also borrows some features from the Mauser design, such as locking screws and a K98k-style front sight hood.

China

Type 53: A license-built version of the post-war Soviet M1944 carbine. As many of the carbines imported to the USA are constructed of both local Chinese parts and surplus Soviet parts, there is much debate as to when this mixture occurred. Type 53s are found both with and without the permanently attached folding bayonet, though the former is far more common. The Chinese Type 53 carbine saw extensive service with the People's Liberation Army from 1953 until the late 1950s/early 1960s when the PLA went over to the Chinese Type 56 carbine and the Chinese Type 56 assault rifle. Many Type 53 carbines were given to the People's Militia in China (The People's Militia used the Type 53 until 1982 when they were replaced with modern weapons) and to North Vietnam (with many carbines ending up in the hands of the National Liberation Front in South Vietnam) and to the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia during the 1960s and 1970s.

Hungary

Mosin Nagant Model 1948 Infantry Rifle Gyalogsági Puska, 48.M (48.Minta) Produced by the FEG (Fémáru Fegyver és Gépgyár) plant in Budapest, these high-quality versions of the Soviet Model 1891/30 were produced from 1949 to possibly as late as 1955. They are characterized by a high-quality finish and the marking of all parts with the "02" stamp.

M/52: a direct copy of the original Soviet Model 1891/30 sniper rifle. Identifying features include:.

M44 Pattern: Domestically produced version of post war pattern Soviet M44 Carbine marked "02"

Romania

Triangular shaped markings, some with an arrow inside, on many components of the rifle. Normally three "R"'s surrounded by crossed stalks with leaves pointing outwards are on the top of the breech. Year stamps are quite visible. The trigger assembly is unique in the Romanian 91/30 and is adjustable. It is not interchangeable with other Mosins.
M44 Pattern: Domestically produced version of post war pattern Soviet M44 Carbine during the years 1953 to 1955. Variances to the Soviet pattern produced minor differences.

M91/30 Pattern: Domestically produced version Soviet pattern M91 during the year 1955. Some of the guns are marked "INSTRUCTIE" and held in reserve for a secondary line of defense in case of invasion. The Instructie mark is typically, but not always, accompanied by a broad red band on the buttstock. Some collectors do not consider these safe to fire, but most appear to be in good working order although well worn and somewhat neglected. The "EXERCITIU" mark is found on rifles that seem to have been used specifically for training purposes only. The "EXERCITIU" rifles are easily recognized by the black paint on the entire butt of the stock. They are not intended to be fired since the firing pin is clipped and many times parts critical to their proper function are missing.

Poland

wz. 91/98/23: conversion to the 7.92mmx57 Mauser cartridge, with a magazine modified to feed rimless cartridges. Utilized original Russian spike bayonet.
wz. 91/98/25: conversion to the 7.92mmx57 Mauser cartridge, with a magazine modified to feed rimless cartridges and a bayonet mounting bar to allow the use of Mauser 1898 bayonets.
wz. 91/98/26: conversion to the 7.92mmx57 Mauser cartridge, with a magazine modified to feed rimless cartridges and a bayonet mounting bar to allow the use of Mauser 1898 bayonets. Modified two-piece ejector/interrupter similar to Mauser pattern rifles.
wz. 44: Domestically produced version of post war pattern Soviet M44 Carbine, Marked with the Polish "circle 11."

United States

U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916: Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin–Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916", these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France.

During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $3.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard .30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries.


Continued...........
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 06:32:17 PM by Henry Bowman »

Henry Bowman

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2014, 06:03:04 PM »
Continued...........

Civilian use

Mosin–Nagants have been exported from Finland since the 1960s as its military modernized and decommissioned the rifles. Most of these have ended up as inexpensive surplus for Western nations.

In Russia the Mosin–Nagant action has been used to produce a limited number of commercial rifles, the most famous are the Vostok brand target rifles exported in Europe in the 1960s and 1970s chambered in the standard 7.62x54mmR round and in 6.5x54mmR, a necked down version of the original cartridge designed for long range target shooting. Rifles in 6.5x54R use a necked-down 7.62x54R cartridge and were the standard rifle of the USSR's Olympic biathlon team until the International Olympic Committee revised the rules of the event to reduce the range to 50 meters and required all competitors to use rifles chambered in .22LR.

A number of the Model 1891s produced by New England Westinghouse and Remington were sold to private citizens in the United States by the U.S. government through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship program between the two World Wars. Rifles from this program are valuable collectibles. Many of these American-made Mosin–Nagants were rechambered by wholesalers to the ubiquitous American .30-06 Springfield cartridge; some were done crudely, and others were professionally converted. Regardless of the conversion, a qualified gunsmith should examine the rifle before firing, and owners should use caution before firing commercial ammunition.

With the fall of the Iron Curtain, a large quantity of Mosin–Nagants have found their way onto markets outside of Russia as collectibles and hunting rifles. Due to the large surplus created by the Soviet small arms industry during World War II and the tendency of the former Soviet Union to retain and store large quantities of old but well-preserved surplus (long after other nations' militaries divested themselves of similar vintage materials), these rifles (mostly M1891/30 rifles and M1944 carbines) are inexpensive compared to other surplus arms of the same era.

There is serious collector interest in the Mosin–Nagant family of rifles, and they are popular with target shooters and hunters, with their durability and reliability being legendary, though a downfall of these rifles in their new hunting and target shooting roles are the coarse Soviet military-style sights. The notched rear tangent iron sight is adjustable for elevation, and is calibrated in hundreds of meters (Arshins on earlier models). The front sight is a post that is not adjustable for elevation. Windage adjustment is done by the armory before issue, but a dovetail mount allows for corrections in the field. The battle setting places the round within +/-33 cm from the point of aim out to 350 m (380 yd). This "point-blank range" setting allows the shooter to fire the gun at any close target without adjusting the sights. The field adjustment procedure for the AK-47, AKM and AK-74 family requires 4 rounds to be placed in a 15 cm group at a distance of 100 meters. Longer settings are intended for area suppression. These settings mirror the Mosin–Nagant and SKS-45 rifles which the AK-47 replaced. This eased transition and simplified training.

The "point-blank range" setting of the Mosin–Nagant is due to the necessity of quick instruction of conscripted soldiers. However, the lack of fine adjustment leaves some hunters with the desire to add a scope and, as of this writing, two companies make adjustable sights for the Russian version of this rifle, Mojo and Smith-Sights. Generally viewed as highly accurate, these rifles show a capability of two-inch groups or better at 100 yards/meters when used with good ammunition and are capable of taking all game on the North American Continent when correct ammunition is used.[30] If the barrel is free-floated or bedded and has a sound bore, and if the trigger is worked on to lighten it and improve let-off, accuracy of minute of arc is possible with scoped Model 91/30s. Several companies make scope rings that can be mounted to the dovetail under the rear sight of the Model 91/30, sight bases that can be mounted to the dovetail, and scope mounts that can be fixed to the rifle without drilling or tapping.

In addition, at least three American companies manufacture aftermarket rifle stocks that come inletted so a Mosin can be dropped directly into the stock without additional modification, for shooters who would prefer their ex-military rifles look more like civilian-made hunting rifles.

*Wikipedia



















308nato

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2014, 05:22:37 PM »
Great info on the Mosins as I have 2 right now and I'am looking for a Finnish model.

Henry Bowman

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2014, 04:35:23 PM »
Spanish FR8 in 7.62 Nato......Nice little rifles that have been going up in price lately.... A fun rifle to own whether you have a Cetme....or not.....

btw......Not that anyone has asked, but the hide I use for the background is a Sika hide....



Type: Service Carbine

Place of origin: Spain

Service history:

In service: 1950s-1970s

Production history:

Manufacturer: bolt system: Mauser, barrel: CETME or H&K, refitting: Fabrica De Armas La Coruña

Variants: FR 7, FR 8

Specifications:

Weight:  3,700 grams (8.2 lb)

Length: 960 millimeters (38 in)

Barrel length: 470 millimeters (19 in)
 
Cartridge: 7.62x51

Barrels: 1

Action: Bolt action

Feed system: 5-round internal magazine

Sights: 3 diopters or notch (selectable) and front sight

The FR7 and FR8 were introduced in the 1950s when the Spanish military was already implementing the CETME automatic rifle, but did not yet have sufficient inventory to equip and train all troops. The rifles were made from existing stockpiles of Mauser bolt-action rifles. The FR-7 was a modification of the Model 1916 short rifle, which in turn was based on the Mauser Model 1893. These three rifles are often referred to as being "small ring" Mausers, as the receiver ring is smaller in diameter than the latter Model 1898 by .110-inch (1.410 inches vs. 1.300 inches).[4] The FR-8 was developed from the Model 1943 short rifle, which was based on "large ring" Model 1898 Mauser action. Both rifles were modified to fire the 7.62×51mm CETME. The FR 8 was used well into the 1970s by mounted Guardia Civil units in the Sierra Nevada.

Scout Rifle Influence:

The FR-7/FR-8 is an example of the type of carbine recommended by Jeff Cooper as a Scout rifle in the early 1970's, and bears a strong resemblance to the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle introduced in 2010.

Features:
The flash hider was designed to be compatible with NATO-standard rifle grenades. The under-barrel tube, which resembles the gas cylinder found on automatic weapons, actually serves as the bayonet mount and as storage for cleaning gear. The rear sight is an elevation-adjustable rotary type with apertures for 200 m (220 yd), 300 m (330 yd) and 400 m (440 yd), as well as an open "V" notch for 100 meters (110 yd). The front sight is elevation-adjustable via a special tool. Operation is identical to the standard Mauser design.








* Wikipedia

TXDARKHORSE361

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2014, 11:30:41 PM »
Love everything about this thread, haven't posted in response before because it locks up my phone when on tapatalk (probably because of the pictures and info being too amazing). I have seen a lot of these in person and am truly humbled to have been able to shoot a few (Henry Bowman you're the man seriously). I highly recommend if you're in the area swing by and check out the shop and introduce yourself, if he likes ya you might get to lay eyes on this amazing collection.

Alright....let's move on to a rifle not normally thought of a military rifle in this particular variant of the rifle. Many were used in WWII as the M1928A1, M1 and M1A1. As you will see by the photo's this one is marked "U.S. Navy". The Navy was interested in the Thompson, but weren't fond of its high rate of fire. Quite a few 1921 model Colt Thompson were modified to shoot a lower rate of fire around 850 rounds per minute, iirc. This rifle does have the Blish block.  They were over stamped as 1928 over the 1921 (see photo). The rifles are known as the 1921/28 over stamp Thompsons. The Navy did not buy them, in the end and they were sold on the Civilian market. This particular rifle ended up being sold to the Denver Police Department and thus property marked on the stock (see photos). It was eventually sold by the DPD to a private Citizen and entered the NFA Registry.

The rifle is in excellent condition and is surprisingly controllable on full auto and if doesn't bring a smile to your face, your either dead or stupid, imho of course.....


Having shot this exact one pictured that is my opinion as well

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Henry Bowman

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2018, 10:16:16 PM »
Is there any interest in continuing this thread? I have added to the collection and am willing to continue if there is interest..... O:tu

308nato

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2018, 06:06:05 PM »
I don"t always post  much but do a lot of reading and always enjoyed this thread.

TexasRedneck

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2018, 08:11:23 AM »
Same here - I read a lot, say little....who knew retired life could keep ya so busy??
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308nato

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2018, 04:17:12 PM »
Yeah been retired since 2002 and it seems I have been doing more work than when employed. lol
The wife and her obsession with redoing the yard to have less maintenance over all has been a long haul.

TexasRedneck

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Re: This Old Military Rifle
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2018, 09:24:49 PM »
Yeah been retired since 2002 and it seems I have been doing more work than when employed. lol
The wife and her obsession with redoing the yard to have less maintenance over all has been a long haul.

Well, between the old side business that I stepped up, the gun shop and my TSRA stuff....I need a job so I can relax!  O:h
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